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Katie: Hiya and welcome to the Wellness Mama podcast. I’m Katie from WellnessMama.com and I’m again on this episode with return visitor, Naveen Jain, to speak about why oral well being is so necessary for total well being and why microbiome is essential. We additionally speak about parenting as we all the time are likely to do. And if you happen to’re not acquainted already, Naveen is an intensely curious entrepreneur who is just not afraid to tackle audacious concepts that may assist humanity. He’s the creator of the award-winning e book, Moonshots: Making a World of Abundance. And his present adventures are Viome and Moon Categorical. As a serial entrepreneur, he beforehand based Infospace, Intelius, and TalentWise, and now focuses on Viome, whose singular mission is to make sickness elective. They’ve an AI-driven platform that analyzes the interplay between meals, our microbiome, and our human cells as a way to develop exact vitamin and forestall and reverse continual ailments.
And on this episode, we go deep on the oral microbiome, how 99% of the genes in our physique don’t come from our dad and mom however from the 100 trillion microbes that decision our our bodies dwelling, how oral well being pertains to total well being and intestine well being, what the oral microbiome is and methods to enhance it, how oral well being is related to issues like colorectal most cancers and coronary heart illness, why the micro organism in our mouth is said to digestion, nitric oxide manufacturing, and rather more. We speak about what biofilms are and what to do about them, the significance of issues like oral pre-, pro-, and post-biotics, the distinction between genes and gene expression, and the way gene expression is consistently altering, after which go deep on the subject of parenting, which is all the time a favourite subject for the 2 of us. So let’s be part of Naveen. Naveen, welcome again!
Naveen: Effectively Katie, what a pleasure to be speaking to you. Each single time I discuss to you, it brings again nice reminiscences and unbelievable vitality since you are simply such a fantastic, constructive particular person.
Katie: Thanks. I really feel the identical. And I believe again to our first lengthy dialog a few years in the past at an occasion the place we talked about every little thing from parenting to very particular intestine microbes and every little thing in between. And I’ve loved each dialog since then. And I’m excited to leap into this one.
Folks may be accustomed to you already from our previous episodes that went actually deep on the subject of intestine well being and the way that pertains to the entire physique. I’ll be certain that to hyperlink to these within the present notes. Should you guys haven’t listened, you will discover them at wellnessmama.fm. However right now I’m actually excited to proceed the microbiome dialog in a few instructions that I really feel like are very related and that you just even have experience in. The primary being the subject of oral well being and the way this pertains to not solely intestine well being however the well being of the physique.
Dave: Hey Naveen, what you doing?
Katie: Hello Dave Asprey, for these of you which might be listening in.
Dave: After all I can’t hear you as a result of no earbuds. However Katie, love you, you’re superior.
Katie: Hello Dave. What a enjoyable cameo. I’m doing great. You look superior. It’s nice to see you.
Dave: Nice to see you.
Katie: You too.
Dave: I like what you do, I like what you do. Should you’re within the south, simply need you to listen to from me.
Katie: Superior. Effectively, thanks for hopping in. For these of you guys who aren’t watching, Dave Asprey has simply joined the dialog.
Naveen: All there good to proceed.
Katie: Effectively, I used to be going to say to proceed our dialog from our previous podcast, I really feel like we obtained such good depth on the intestine microbiome and the way this pertains to our entire physique and each side of well being. And I really feel like one other actually necessary subject right here that you’re additionally an professional in is the subject of oral well being, which we all know additionally has a microbiome additionally pertains to intestine well being, but in addition impacts the physique in a myriad of various methods. So to start out off broad, possibly simply stroll us by way of the idea of oral well being, the oral microbiome and the way this pertains to total well being.
Naveen: To start with, let’s simply to begin with step again and have a look at the human physique itself, proper? We’re so happy with who we’re as people with out realizing that 99 % of all of the genes in our physique don’t come from our mother and pop. These are the microbes that dwell inside our intestine. They dwell in our mouth and our ears and our scalp and throughout us 100 Trillion of those microbes that decision the people as dwelling
So we actually are to giant extent this strolling speaking ecosystem throughout the bigger ecosystem we name universe. And any level of time we disturb this ecosystem Whether or not we’re disturbing our oral microbiome or we’re disturbing our intestine microbiome. We in reality find yourself making our physique sick and the reason being as a result of our physique has come to depend on these microbes to offer the vitamins that our physique wants. They’re the sensors for the human physique. They actually are telling when there’s something dangerous is coming into the mouth, when one thing is bitter style, one thing is a foul style, that it’s the sign they ship out, they are saying spit this factor out or vomit it out. That is simply no good for you, proper?
So all these signaling are completed by these microbes which might be continuously interacting with the atmosphere. So microbes and the atmosphere work together collectively and so they work together with the human host that we’re as a number and these hundred million microbes that dwell inside and on us.
What’s actually attention-grabbing in regards to the oral well being is it’s actually a gateway to our digestive system. We as people are actually like a donor. There’s a tube that goes by way of us and there’s a entire physique that’s round us. The start of the tube is our mouth the place all of our oral microbiome resides. And what’s actually attention-grabbing is that when it comes to the forms of microbiome, there’s extra range of microbiome in our mouth despite the fact that the amount of microbes is decrease than our intestine. However they’re extra various set of microbiome in our mouth than they’re in our intestine.
And similar to intestine, what occurs in your mouth doesn’t keep within the mouth. It really impacts not solely our intestine microbiome, but in addition impression us as human beings. Actually, now the oral well being is straight related to our cardiovascular well being. As most individuals might or might not know, our oral microbes are the first producer of nitric oxide. As , the nitric oxide is totally wanted for rest of our vascular system and with out that, we may have coronary heart illness. And in reality, it additionally improves your sexual well being, let’s simply say, , very clearly nitric oxide additionally will increase the blood stream. The nitric, along with the oral microbiome, is straight related to metabolism, particularly diabetes.
And lots of the microbes in our mouth at the moment are being straight related to Alzheimer. So when you might have leaky gums, as a result of our gums are the limitations, when your gums are bleeding, all these microbes at the moment are going into the blood. And there’s a concept that these microbes at the moment are, in reality, infecting the blood-brain barrier, leads to the mind, and that causes the an infection. And after they analyze the individuals who die from Alzheimer, they see an incredible quantity of P. gingivalis and gingipain being produced in lots of of those individuals who have Alzheimer.
Actually, lots of the oral microbes someday find yourself settling in our intestine. We, each day, we as people are swallowing about 1.5 liter of saliva each single day. So meaning we’re swallowing all of these oral microbes that go into our intestine. Usually these microbes would die within the abdomen due to the acidity. So usually the acid within the abdomen would kill many of those microbes, it’s not most of them.
However, , as increasingly more persons are on anti-acid medicine and taking Nexium and Pepsid, now we don’t have sufficient acidity in our abdomen to kill these microbes and these microbes find yourself settling within the intestine. Actually, a few the microbes like Fusobacterium nucleatum, which is an oral microbiome, when it finally ends up settling within the intestine, turns into primary predictor of colorectal most cancers. So the colorectal most cancers in reality is brought on by Fusobactin nucleatum, which occurs to be an oral microbiome.
In order you possibly can see that despite the fact that now we have… now we have our kidney and now we have a coronary heart, these are all interconnected. It’s not that what abruptly occurs in your mouth goes to remain within the mouth and what’s taking place within the intestine stays within the intestine. All of our programs are interacting with one another. And we as human physique are additionally interacting with the atmosphere. So we actually must handle our surroundings as a result of that additionally impacts who we’re.
Katie: Yeah, I really feel that is such an interesting subject. I first obtained into researching this a few years in the past, really, once I discovered I had just a few small cavities and I used to be pregnant on the time, so I didn’t need to get them crammed. And through that point I used to be pregnant, we ended up transferring and I obtained a brand new dentist. And after they did the oral examination, I didn’t have cavities anymore. And till that time, I had been advised that cavities might by no means heal. So I used to be fascinated by what had occurred.
And I began researching and studying in regards to the oral microbiome and the way, simply to the touch on the floor stage of what you simply defined, there’s all these trillions of micro organism taking place within the physique, however within the mouth particularly, it looks as if there’s competing micro organism and it may go pathogenic in considered one of two methods. So it may go in the direction of the strep mutans space, which is the cavity forming micro organism or in the direction of the gingivitis strains of micro organism. They usually’re each opportunistic. So that they don’t usually exist on the identical time. So that you’ll usually see one drawback or the opposite. However that made me suppose, in fact, meaning we will hopefully nourish our good oral micro organism and that pertains to not simply cavities and gingivitis, however to, such as you stated, so many points of well being. And I really feel like this isn’t talked about almost sufficient.
So in your view, what are a few of the issues we will do to nourish the nice micro organism in our mouth? And what are some issues to keep away from to maintain the dangerous micro organism from getting too sturdy?
Naveen: After all, so to begin with, as you possibly can see there, , individuals have a look at the mouth as primarily as self-importance. Oh, I’ve nice whitened enamel. And didn’t imply, and other people consider dangerous breath, oh, it’s only a dangerous, , it’s a foul breath. It’s a symptom of issues already gone incorrect when you might have a foul breath. The query actually you need to ask your self is, what’s inflicting the dangerous breath to occur?
And it may occur as a result of you might have a excessive sulfide manufacturing. So your mouth is begin to odor like this volcano, , sulfide, proper? So a whole lot of the sulfide could be very dangerous smelling. So when you might have a excessive sulfide manufacturing by your oral microbiome, you odor like sulfide.
Or you possibly can be producing polyamine, which is one other, it’s like a rotten egg, principally. It’s like a rotten egg and you’ve got that odor. And now, curiously, identical kind of factor that you just talked about, the S Mutants and P. gingivitis and lots of different of those organisms, in reality, begin to work collectively. So when there’s a biofilm being shaped in your enamel, it seems that many of those micro organism are hydrophilic. Which means they can’t really follow your enamel. So there are different micro organism that come alongside, they will follow the enamel, and that permits the opposite forms of micro organism to stay to those micro organism, and so they kind the movie, which is what we see after we get the plaque, and even after we get up within the morning, if you rub our tongue on the enamel, we get this slimy stuff. That’s your biofilm, proper?
Now to reply your query, what you are able to do is to actually have the oral probiotic and oral prebiotic and oral postbiotic. And Katie, we, as , when in our full physique intelligence check, we analyze your oral microbiome and the human gene expression on the identical time whereas we’re analyzing your intestine microbiome. And we’re additionally analyzing your blood so we will have a look at your mitochondria and we will additionally have a look at all of the genes which might be expressed on the human aspect, together with your cytokines and every little thing else. And all three mixed permits us to see what is occurring in your physique. And till now, we have been capable of provide the intestine probiotics and prebiotics to repair your intestine. We have been capable of customized make the dietary supplements for you that will really deliver your physique again into the wholesome state.
And now within the subsequent, let’s see, mid-July, you’ll be capable to get the oral lozenges for us. They are going to be personalised to you. So these oral lozenges might be personalised to every particular person and they’ll be capable to regulate your oral microbiome, each from a probiotic, prebiotic and postbiotic perspective. That might be launching a personalised toothpaste that might be made for you for AM and PM and that toothpaste once more goes to have all of the important oils, probiotics, prebiotics, the entire pure enzymes that your mouth wants to regulate the oral microbiome and one of many issues it’s going to do is to fully take away the plaque on contact.
And now we have now over 30 peer reviewed research that exhibits clearly that by brushing with this personalised gel, it removes the plaque on contact. So I’m simply tremendous excited that now we’ll be capable to regulate the oral well being of individuals, which is mostly a gateway to the human well being.
Katie: Yeah, and one thing else I like to focus on relating to this subject is a whole lot of the issues after we speak about micro organism that individuals may instinctively suppose to do in the event that they suppose they’re frightened about micro organism can really make the issue worse. So from my understanding, these mouthwashes that we will get on the grocery retailer which have a whole lot of alcohol in it or actually sturdy antibacterial stuff, they will really kill the nice micro organism too and really result in the dangerous micro organism getting additional out of stability. So I simply all the time like to focus on that. And I’d love any enter you might have on that simply because I do know individuals generally hear micro organism and wanna go rush to kill the micro organism. However such as you’re saying, that’s not all the time the most suitable choice.
Naveen: Effectively, to begin with, give it some thought. Your physique wants these micro organism and these microbiomes. So let’s go greater, a much bigger image. Bear in mind, the microbiome means micro means small, biome means residing life. So this microbiome is basically not simply micro organism, it’s viruses, fungi, it’s mould, it’s actually the entire stuff, yeast, the entire issues that we all know of, that now we have a primary ick issue, proper? Oh my God, I must eliminate them. Guess what? We couldn’t dwell with out them. They, in reality, are those in our intestine, in our mouth, that in our mouth, they pre-digest our meals. In our intestine, they actually ferment the fiber that our physique can not digest and in flip give us the vitamins our physique wants, equivalent to short-chain fatty acid, which is butyrate and acetate and propionate. All of this stuff are completed by microbiome.
Our microbiome produces vitamin Okay. Actually, with out the microbiome in our physique, you wouldn’t be capable to dwell. Actually, after we do the testing on mice, mice, after we kill all of their intestine microbiome and the oral microbiome, principally they’re known as the mice that haven’t any microbes. They really don’t dwell longer and they’re sicker on a regular basis. So our microbes really maintain us wholesome and when the newborn is born to, the newborn is born by way of the beginning canal, it provides us a full publicity of microbiome to the newborn. Actually, the newborn, the microbiome is what’s draining the immune system for the newborn. So in reality, the infants get sicker as a result of their immune system not doesn’t perceive at first what’s a pal, what’s a foe. And our microbiome is consistently coaching our immune system. And that’s why as they get grownup, they’ve a mature microbiome, the microbiome that’s really working with them.
And sadly, the infants which might be born by way of C-section doesn’t generally get all of those microbes and that causes a whole lot of the problems. So one factor you wanna be very clear is these microbes are your pal. They aren’t your enemy. So taking antibiotics or taking a mouthwash that’s antibiotic mouthwash, you’re doing extra harm than good. Killing these microbes does harm to human well being interval. So don’t suppose that merely doing a mouthwash to really kill the micro organism which may be inflicting the dangerous breath, you’re doing your self a favor. You might be additionally eliminating the micro organism that’s gonna produce the nitric oxide that your physique wants. That’s what’s gonna produce lot of the pre-digestive enzymes that our physique wants to have the ability to digest and take up the vitamins in our physique.
Katie: That’s an necessary level. And one factor I’ve talked about somewhat bit on right here earlier than, however I’ll clarify in somewhat extra depth to your level is we’re first inoculated with all that necessary intestine micro organism through the birthing course of. And naturally, C sections are generally inevitable, like with my third. However one factor I discovered was they will really now do a swab of the mom’s micro organism and put it on the newborn even throughout a C-section. And the info I’ve seen on that’s actually fascinating so far as how that may really assist infants have fewer charges of allergic reactions and eczema and a whole lot of the issues that may include not getting that preliminary publicity.
I do know that additionally right here there’s that hyperlink between like we’ve talked about oral micro organism and the intestine micro organism. So I’d love to speak about any components that assist to encourage each of these. As an example, one I’ve seen recurring within the literature is consuming a range of meals, clearly meals that you just don’t react to. However it looks as if many individuals right now are consuming a really slender vary of the identical meals again and again and that our guts are likely to thrive extra after we’re uncovered to all kinds of greens and herbs and spices that nourish the physique in several methods. However are you able to converse to that and any ideas for giving our micro organism or intestine micro organism what it must thrive?
Naveen: Certain. So Katie. I’m going to step again and simply possibly describe to the viewers, individuals who might not have heard me earlier than about what’s it that we do. So I’m Founder and CEO of Viome. That’s V as in Victor, I-O-M-E. Viome Life Sciences. And we’re, very first thing we do is we analyze your gene expression. We analyze your RNA. We don’t analyze your DNA. We have a look at RNA. And for the individuals who is probably not accustomed to what’s the distinction between DNA and RNA. So DNA by no means modifications, proper? So if you happen to do a DNA check for me right now and I acquire 200 kilos and also you do my one other DNA check, it’s nonetheless the identical. After which I change into diabetic and you are able to do my DNA continues to be the identical. Then I’ve melancholy, then I get nervousness, then I get coronary heart assault. and also you do my DNA check once more, it’s the identical DNA. Actually, after I die, if you happen to have been to do my DNA check, but once more, years after I died, it’s nonetheless the identical DNA. We will nonetheless have a look at the DNA of fact in widespread or DNA of dinosaur. So the actual fact is your DNA can’t even let you know you’re useless or alive, not to mention you’re wholesome or sick.
What is consistently altering in your physique is just not your DNA, however your RNA, your gene expression is all the time altering. And for the people who find themselves questioning what’s a gene expression, the best way I’m able to perceive for myself is that each a part of our physique is equivalent DNA. So my hair has the identical DNA as my pores and skin, my eyes, my lungs, my coronary heart, my kidney, my nails, my fingers, every little thing is equivalent DNA. But, I don’t have the eyes rising on my finger and the nails rising on my head, identical DNA. And the reason being some genes are overexpressed, some genes are below expressed, totally different genes are expressed, so identical DNA could make any a part of our physique. It makes our neurons in our mind and it makes the lungs, identical DNA.
RNA is the story you’re writing, DNA is like an alphabet. So what Viome does is it begins from the start to know what’s going on in your physique. So that you begin with the saliva. So that you order a equipment at viome.com. And when you get that equipment at dwelling, you ship us a spit of your saliva, 4 drops of your finger prick blood, and a contact of your stool. After which we begin to really do the entire RNA evaluation of every little thing you ship us. So we’re in your saliva, all your oral microbial gene expression. So we all know what are they producing. After which we have a look at human gene expression in your saliva. Equally, within the blood, we’re ready to have a look at all your mitochondrial gene expression and the human gene expression that comes out of your cytokines. Mainly, these are the, , your immune system.
And within the intestine, we at the moment are all your 30 trillion microbes and we’re analyzing their gene expression to see what they’re producing. After which we’re wanting on the interplay between the entire microbial manufacturing, microbial metabolites and the human gene expression.
Now, as soon as now we have analyzed every little thing, we let you know what is occurring in your physique. So we’ll let you know what’s your organic age, which is how properly are you getting older or how poorly are you getting older, proper? So my chronological age is 64 and I’m biologically now right down to 52 proper? Now think about once I’m years previous chronologically, I may very well be 40 yr previous biologically. So meaning my spouse by no means must search for a younger man as a result of she’s already married a younger man, proper? In order that’s actually the trick is that we could be biologically youthful and despite the fact that we are literally chronologically getting older.
We provide you with your immune well being, we provide you with your intestine well being rating, we provide you with your oral well being rating, we provide you with your cognitive well being, we provide you with your cardiac well being and we provide you with 50 plus in-depth insights into your physique. After which we let you know, listed below are the meals you shouldn’t eat, and right here is why. Eat these meals, and right here is why. So for instance, there isn’t any such factor as common wholesome meals. Spinach could be good for you. And in reality, what we discover is of the individuals, spinach really harms you as a result of your intestine microbes usually are not capable of digest oxalates correctly. Now, in case your intestine microbes are producing a whole lot of sulfide, and the sulfide causes a whole lot of irritation, then we all know the one option to produce excessive sulfide is that they want sulfate. And what are the meals excessive in sulfate? Broccoli, cabbage, brussels sprouts. So we are saying keep away from these meals.
Similar kind of factor, if we see you’re producing a whole lot of ammonia, then we will say, hey, , your ammonia is coming from fermenting the protein. Which means you’re taking a whole lot of protein that’s not being digested. And you’ve got two selections. Take a digestive enzyme with that protein, or minimize down that protein. Equally, you possibly can have a look at uric acid and say, hey, don’t eat avocado, or don’t take vitamin B3, as a result of your uric acid manufacturing is just too excessive. Or don’t take curcumin in case your bile acid manufacturing is just too excessive. In order you possibly can see, there isn’t any such factor as common wholesome meals. And there’s no such factor as common wholesome complement. A identical meals could be good for you, or it may be dangerous for you, relying on what’s taking place in a microbe. So. One man’s meals is one other man’s poison, and the identical meals that’s good for you right now may very well be dangerous for you six months from now as your microbes are continuously altering.
What we do curiously, Katie, is that when we understand what meals you want and what meals you shouldn’t eat, we additionally have a look at what vitamins your physique is at the moment missing. After which we will let you know that you just want each day milligram of elderberry, milligram of berberine, you want milligram of amylase. And we undergo each vitamin, mineral, herbs, digestive enzyme, meals extracts, probiotics, prebiotics, and we customized make that for every particular person. Which means there isn’t any pre-made stuff. We actually make the powder for every particular person each single month. We put that powder within the capsule and we customized make these capsules for each particular person each month and we ship it to you.
So you possibly can see that every little thing that that you must maintain your physique wholesome and every little thing that you must maintain the intestine wholesome is one thing we use to offer. And now we might be including to it the oral lozenges so you possibly can regulate the oral microbiome, the personalised toothpaste so you possibly can regulate your oral microbiome. And we’re going to proceed doing increasingly more issues. So sooner or later we will analyze your pores and skin microbiome and make the customized cream that’s really going to be designed for every individual that’s going to be pores and skin cream. Think about if you happen to can analyze your scalp microbiome. We will do a personalised shampoo and personalised hair conditioner for every particular person. And identical kind of issues, the meals which might be good for you. So we let you know each single superfood. Which means you want these superfoods. Now think about if we will make a superfood pack for every person that’s customized made for you. So that you’re not simply consuming the identical greens that everybody else is consuming. We take out the kale is dangerous to you or spinach is dangerous to your broccoli is dangerous to you. We will make the superfoods with solely the components which might be superfoods for you and that might be a customized made superfood. So we actually are , Katie, from our perspective, what can we do to personalize and customise each single factor that human beings want to remain wholesome each single day.
Katie: Yeah, it’s positively tremendous complete what you guys are doing. And I’d additionally like to springboard onto that as a result of I’ve change into an enormous believer through the years that we’d like that personalization and individualization. And I’ve spoken to that a lot of how we’re every so totally different. Such as you defined that we’d like personalised inputs. And whereas we’d hear from an professional who’s found out a fantastic system, their system won’t work precisely the identical for us, however that there additionally do appear to be some issues which might be universally useful to us as human animals and that we sadly can not or happily can’t put in a capsule, which I’d put issues like daylight and nature publicity and sleep in that class. Like we all know the info on morning daylight and the way that impacts our circadian rhythm, how vivid noon daylight and the purple gentle and blue gentle cost ourselves, how I’ve by no means heard a single professional in 700 podcast episodes say sleep is just not completely very important to our well being.
So I’d love to listen to your perspective from seeing all this information for 1000’s of individuals. What are the opposite issues which might be free that we will do at dwelling that make this stuff more practical?
Naveen: Completely. So to begin with, , if you happen to have a look at the longevity, there is sort of a hierarchy of wants and there are 5 issues that that you must keep wholesome and keep longer and keep longer, more healthy. Proper? So primary is vitamin. I’ve talked sufficient about vitamin with out the correct vitamin. Nothing issues. It’s like having a Ferrari, however not placing the suitable gasoline in that. So as soon as you bought within the vitamin taken care of, the subsequent step is definitely Katie, the stress, Stress Administration, proper? As a result of when your physique is below stress, it goes into battle or flight response. And sadly, when the physique is into the sympathetic mode, which is battle or flight response, it shuts down our digestive system. Bear in mind after we was in battle or flight as a result of we’ve been chased by a tiger, you don’t want to fret about really digesting your meals since you’re about to change into a lunch for another person. Proper? And after we are pressured, our immune system really stopped working as a result of it’s not, it’s not crucial. Solely factor at that time crucial is battle or flight. So meaning your physique is able to battle or able to run. And that’s the rationale in case you are below stress, nothing works.
People who find themselves below stress get sick extra typically. They can not digest the meals. So, , what do individuals do? earlier than they eat, we do gratitude, we do prayers. Why can we do this? It’s as a result of it brings the physique again from a sympathetic mode to parasympathetic mode. So meaning you not below battle or battle response. So you possibly can digest your meals. And that’s the rationale that culturally we’re capable of do the gratitude earlier than we eat. So it permits us to digest our meals.
The quantity three factor is train. Now, I’m not suggesting that now we have to spend 4 hours or eight hours within the fitness center pumping iron, however all of us want to have the ability to do 45-minutes of quick strolling. Actually, if you may get 4, 5 miles, steps, a quick stroll, that’s adequate for most individuals. As we become old, it actually helps even to make use of your physique weight to do some muscle coaching. So whether or not you do push-up, you do pull-up, you are able to do squatting. I imply, it doesn’t require a whole lot of tools. You are able to do it at dwelling. All the fundamental issues that that you must do to remain wholesome.
The quantity 4 factor is sleep. And there’s a lot information on sleep. Actually, it’s the high quality of sleep that issues simply as a lot as the amount of sleep. You’ve gotten to have the ability to get a minimum of one and a half hour of deep sleep and a minimum of one and a half hour of REM sleep. And since through the REM sleep and deep sleep, not solely our physique is flooded with the fluid that truly removes the rubbish from the mind, so it’s actually a cleansing drainage system that occurs after we are into the REM sleep or deep sleep. On the identical time, it additionally takes our short-term reminiscence, every little thing we be taught, and it really strikes right into a everlasting reminiscence. So it takes a short-term storage from hippocampus and it begins to maneuver the reminiscence into our new cortex. So all that occurs throughout sleep. And in reality, when individuals who don’t sleep properly or sleep even 4 hours or 5 hours, they have a tendency to change into virtually as if they’re ingesting and their mind fog, their vitality, and the entire programs are as if they’re drunk. So sleep is totally essential for human well being.
And the final half, Katie, is discovering the aim. It’s actually necessary that individuals who dwell a lifetime of goal are likely to dwell to years longer than the individuals haven’t any goal. So do one thing that’s past you, simply good for you. Do one thing that’s significant for others. And the extra belongings you do to make different individuals’s life higher, the higher you may be having a greater life, a more healthy life, and dwell longer.
Katie: Yeah, I completely agree on that. I do know we’ve had many private conversations alongside these strains and that for each of us, an enormous a part of our goal is bettering the world for our children and for future generations and our kids generally being an enormous focus.
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I’d really love to speak about updates somewhat bit as a result of I’ve gotten to know your daughter somewhat bit just lately and he or she’s really doing a little work much like what you’re doing in, however with the vaginal microbiome, which is one other new and rising space of analysis. And I believe additionally crucial to understanding this total microbial atmosphere of the physique. So if you happen to don’t thoughts converse somewhat bit and humble brag in your daughter somewhat.
Naveen: Effectively, really, I’m going to have you ever, since about vaginal microbiome and the way necessary it’s to human well being, I’m going to have you ever speak about it and I’m going to let you know about what does it take to be a fantastic dad or mum and methods to elevate youngsters in a fluent household and even in a middle-class household that they actually have this starvation to exit and do audacious issues.
Katie: So briefly, I’ll contact on what she does and I’ll be certain that there’s a hyperlink within the present notes. Should you guys need to continue to learn extra, they’ve a whole lot of instructional assets too. However I really feel like that is an space of medication that has been largely ignored for a protracted, very long time, as a result of for almost all of our recorded historical past, a minimum of the vast majority of researchers and docs have been males. So it was a considerably neglected space.
However like we talked about earlier, we all know that the mother’s microbiome, together with her vaginal microbiome impacts a child’s lifelong well being. And so from my understanding, what your daughter’s doing is making testing obtainable at dwelling to the on a regular basis particular person to know what’s going on in their very own vaginal microbiome and methods to enhance it, similar to we’ve talked about with the mouth, with the intestine. And I really feel like for ladies, this can be a actually necessary space that we now have entry to know at a deeper stage. And that equally will hopefully information us within the route of excellent practices that aren’t going to destroy our microbiome and that may assist us enhance it, which is particularly necessary for anybody who’s contemplating having a child. In order that’s her product and her firm. I’ll be certain that it’s linked to as properly.
However I do know a goal and a ardour you and I each deeply share is the significance of elevating children who’re variety and who’re innovators and who additionally wanna assist make the world a greater place and that we’ve each taken some counterintuitive approaches to this and that we regularly get to check notes on it. I’d say for me, it comes from beginning with a type of expertise up versus data down method and what are the long-term targets, the issues I hope to impart to them after which how do I finest nurture that? And after we have a look at it by way of that lens, typically the issues that we might suppose to do as dad and mom won’t really be the most effective method. And so I attempt to give attention to core qualities like creativity and considering exterior the field and asking good questions and letting their motivation come from inside them versus me being their exogenous rule enforcer or motivation. However I like if you speak about this. So let’s shift gears and speak about parenting somewhat.
Naveen: So to begin with, Katie, I’ve three youngsters and my oldest is Angkor and he runs an organization known as B-I-L-T, B-I-L-T. And he basically began this firm, Bilt Rewards, for one easy motive. He thought that many people who’re renting a spot won’t ever ever construct any fairness. We’re continuously maintain losing cash away. So he thought, what if he can create a bank card that has no annual price and you may pay the lease on a bank card and there’s no bank card price, so that you don’t must pay or bank card price. And you continue to earn the factors on each single spend that you just do. And you should use these factors to really pay the subsequent month lease or you should use them to purchase a house or you should use them one-on-one-on any airways you need, proper? Unbelievable what he did. And that firm inside a yr is now value over $1.5 billion. It’s processing over six billion already in lower than one yr as a result of he took on this audacious thought that might assist the entire center class of the nation. And he’s a Wharton grad.
And my daughter that you just talked about, Priyanka, she went to Stanford. She’s the Stanford STEM fellow. She’s the Stanford Mayfield fellow. And the primary firm she did was really use AI to take away the gender bias. After which she obtained actually passionate in regards to the girls’s well being. And what actually obtained to her was as soon as she realized that it’s not the researchers are all males. The ladies weren’t even allowed to be within the scientific analysis till ‘93. Which means virtually each drug that girls takes right now isn’t being examined on girls. And there’s no marvel that it really works much less on girls. Girls are identified seven years later for a similar illness. And the medicine have by no means really examined on girls that they even work on girls. And he or she determined she was going to tackle this problem of ladies’s well being. And he or she began with a vaginal microbiome. And the corporate known as Evvy. E as in Edward, V-V-Y, evvy.com. And… at dwelling check for vaginal microbiome.
And what’s superb is that girls undergo by way of so lots of the vaginal ailments, however they’re ashamed to go speak about that, proper? And he or she determined she’s gonna take the stigma off and actually permit girls to know what’s going on and create a community the place they will now discuss to a health care provider with the outcomes so they’re able to really let you know, that is what that you must do and that is what’s actually happening. And it seems the vaginal microbiome is the primary predictor of preterm beginning. It’s the primary predictor of the well being of the newborn. Along with clearly the intestine well being and the oral well being, it’s a key a part of the ladies’s well being in any respect.
And our youngest one, by the best way, simply to finish, is Neil. And he’s additionally a Stanford grad, and he’s a Schwarzman scholar. And he’s operating an organization known as Velen, which basically is totally rethinking how we purchase houses and the way we pay for our houses and mortgages. So actually all ends of the spectrum of creating certain that they proceed to give attention to issues that may assist billions of individuals dwell a greater life. As a result of I actually consider the success is outlined by not how a lot cash you might have within the financial institution, however how many individuals’s lives you contact. Now, coming again on the parenting aspect is that it’s counterintuitive. The whole lot that we consider we’re doing it for them may very well be harming them. And all of us consider that it’s the enforcer rule of a dad or mum, that taking them to the water and making them drink. And what I spotted was our job as dad and mom is to make them thirsty. And the best way to make them thirsty is to make them intellectually curious. As soon as we create the curious children, they discover their very own water, and they’ll drink. And that mental curiosity is created by permitting them to consider every little thing is feasible.
So we speak about, even when, as an alternative of studying them the story after they have been younger, I’d ask them to inform me a narrative about three issues that I might discover that will by no means be related collectively. And I’d ask them to inform me a narrative a few monkey, an ocean, and a palm tree. They usually must now join the issues collectively that couldn’t be related in the true world.
And the rationale we did that was permit them to suppose that how determined wanting issues can really be related. And it permits them to create new neural connection of their mind. So they’ll ask, OK, dad, now you get to inform me a narrative a few glass and a leaf and a tree. And the way do you join all of them collectively? So level was that we’ll problem one another to attach the issues which might be by no means related.
Now equally, the opposite half was redefining success for them. So let’s say we all the time advised them their success will all the time be measured by what number of lives they enhance. We advised them that their self-worth is just not gonna come from what they personal, but it surely comes from what they create. Which means you possibly can inherit some huge cash, however you’re nonetheless a parasite on society if you happen to’re not doing something to contribute again to the society, proper? Different half that’s typically is most individuals, how would I say, name it very controversial. I really feel that youngsters need to see their dad and mom as a job mannequin. They don’t need to hearken to what they must say. They really watch them do the issues they do fairly than inform them the issues that they inform, proper? So it’s the youngsters really do what they see you do, not what you inform them. So if you happen to say, hey, cash doesn’t matter, and also you’re continuously chasing cash, they know, they see by way of that. Should you make some huge cash and also you say, look, I’m going to now sit at dwelling and never do anything as an alternative of going out and persevering with to enhance the world. And you then inform them, hey, guess what? Our goal in life to continuously enhance the world, however I’m sitting at dwelling watching CNBC. What occurs is children see by way of that. Once they go to highschool, in the event that they see the dad sitting at dwelling watching CNBC, they arrive again from college, I inform them, go work onerous. Exhausting work is what it takes. And by the best way, they see the dad sitting at dwelling watching CNBC. What are they considering? I’m going to develop up similar to my dad did.
Then Katie after my first firm grew to become wildly profitable. I began the second firm, the third firm, and the fourth firm. After which I stated, we’re going to go to the moon and created Moon Categorical to settle and obtained a billion NASA contract. It began wild. Even the age of I needed them to see, age doesn’t matter. You possibly can tackle an audacious problem, even within the space that you could be not know a lot about. And that’s actually the sensation I needed them to have. Simply because they’re non-experts, it isn’t their legal responsibility. Being a non-expert is their asset as a result of they’re able to problem every little thing that the consultants have taken it with no consideration. And that permits them to really rethink, reimagine, and recreate one thing that no professional will do.
And I believe that is in all probability the saddest factor to say is that it doesn’t matter how sensible you’re, children thoughts, your dad and mom will all the time be morons. And the actual fact is our children will all the time say, oh my God, daddy’s not even that sensible. If he can do that, we will do 10 occasions higher. So let’s go tackle even a much bigger problem than what daddy’s doing. And that to me is music to my ears. And the actual fact is you and I each have talked about it. Nothing brings us extra pleasure to our life than to see our children do some superb issues, not simply generate income, however actually exit and do issues that enhance different individuals’s lives.
And I’ve met your children, Katie, and all I can let you know that you’ve got been an unbelievable mom. You’ve gotten devoted your life to serving to them. You’ve gotten devoted your life to educating them in a approach that not solely they’re variety and great youngsters, they’re very sensible and really curious youngsters. And I met your son, and , I believe he’s going to do some nice issues in life. And I can’t look forward to him to return even to an internship with us, or to a met, , if I might mentor him, as a result of I actually suppose your children sooner or later are going to be not solely within the information, they’re going to vary the best way individuals dwell their lives. I can’t wait to examine them and saying, God, I knew that they have been nonetheless in diapers.
Katie: Oh, thanks. And I like that. I like that you just’re forward of me on the parenting curve so I can be taught from you. And I like that we get to have these conversations and to echo your level, I believe I’ve discovered that lesson again and again as a mother, the significance of modeling and the way, such as you stated, we will say issues all day lengthy, but it surely’s what we really do this they take note of. And that’s the rationale us specializing in our personal well being and health as adults is so necessary as a result of that provides them permission to do it. It’s why us having our personal curiosity and persevering with to be taught new issues each single day is necessary as a result of that provides them permission to do it.
And I such as you approached the concept of parenting that they aren’t mine. I don’t personal them within the least that they’re every their very own infinite autonomous beings that I get the respect of being their mother on this lifetime and to go on this journey with them. However on the finish of the day, such as you stated, I hope that thirst comes from inside them and never as a result of they really feel expectation of me, however as a result of they’ve that curiosity and that want to assist people who hopefully they will be taught by way of my instance and thru the instance of so many different individuals and thru superb books and thru associates such as you. So I like that we all the time, it doesn’t matter what, we all the time ended up getting within the subject of parenting. I believe well being is in fact extraordinarily necessary. And I’d say parenting is equally necessary for these of us who’ve children. So I like that we all the time get to go in that route.
Additionally a few final questions which might be extraordinarily egocentric for me as a result of I all the time love studying from you. The primary being: any e book, a e book or variety of books which have had a profound impression on you personally, and if that’s the case, what they’re and why.
Naveen: Effectively, , I learn all forms of books. And, , so these are going to be random books. I simply completed studying a e book known as Existential Physics. And it talks about from a perspective of physics, when somebody dies, are they nonetheless alive? And it’s simply actually thought frightening thought. Is there a soul? Is there a multiverse? So this actually appears in any respect the issues we usually ask one another. And what’s actually attention-grabbing was that even when your grandmother you suppose is useless, if somebody, and let’s assume she died years in the past, when somebody is definitely watching Earth from hundred gentle years away, they’re nonetheless watching her stroll as a result of gentle takes years to succeed in them, and so they’re nonetheless watching her in her mid-40s and really mid-30s, having nice time on Earth. So far as they’re involved, she’s nonetheless alive. So the concept of this, whether or not somebody is alive or useless, whether or not they exist or don’t exist, can we as people really are, exist in any respect as a result of everyone knows that we’re made from atoms and atoms are made from electrons and protons, they’re made from quarts and principally we’re a bundle of vitality despite the fact that after we contact us we really feel stable however we all know it’s not, it’s simply vitality and our haptic senses are fooling us. So anyway that’s a fantastic e book when it comes to understanding from physics perspective what’s there, what is just not there.
The opposite e book I learn was Thousand Brains by Jeff Hawkins, and it actually talks about how our human mind works. What’s actually attention-grabbing in that e book was, we all the time thought that our mind works like a neural community. It has a number of layers and every layer really provides worth to the earlier layer. On this e book, it talks about that each piece of our neocortex is a column, and every column can compute fully, and it principally does the likelihood statistics and votes to say, is that this this or this? And it’s actually the polling that’s taking place within the mind that decides what is correct and what’s incorrect. I assumed it was a very attention-grabbing e book.
The e book, one other e book that I simply completed studying is Why Sleep Issues by Matthew Walker, unbelievably nice sleep scientist and actually explains in nice element why sleep is so necessary and he’s related sleep straight causatively to metabolic issues like diabetes, weight problems and most cancers and lots of different ailments that may straight be associated to individuals who really get an absence of sleep and it may causatively not simply affiliation however causatively how this stuff all join collectively. So I believe it was only a actually attention-grabbing e book to see that why we attempt to consider that it’s a macho factor to do to not sleep but it surely’s actually necessary in your well being to really get a great night time’s sleep.
Katie: I’ll add all three of these to my studying record and likewise to the present notes for you guys listening. They’ll be at wellnessmama.fm together with hyperlinks to Viome and Evvy and all the opposite issues we’ve talked about. And lastly, Naveen, any parting recommendation for the listeners right now that may very well be associated to one thing we’ve talked about or completely unrelated life recommendation?
Naveen: Effectively, I believe to me is that by no means cease dreaming. And I believe lots of people round you’ll all the time begin to deliver you down and let you know, simply since you’re a girl, you can not do this. Simply since you’re brown, you can not do this. Simply since you come from this poor background, you can not do this. Or simply as a result of you haven’t any data of this trade, you can not do this. The actual fact is, don’t let somebody outline who you’re. The best way I simply, , for me is fall in love with your self as a result of the day you fall in love with your self is the day the world will fall in love with you. You don’t want another person’s approval so that you can pursue your desires. The dream’s so large that individuals suppose you’re loopy and all the time keep in mind that you solely fail if you hand over and also you, , your thought might or might not work, however each thought that doesn’t work is just a stepping stone to a distinct thought and a much bigger thought. So my recommendation all the time is, … Fall in love with your self, pursue your desires, and don’t let anybody ever let you know you could’t do them.
Katie: I believe that’s an ideal place to wrap up for right now. Naveen, it’s all the time a pleasure to have a dialog with you. Thanks a lot in your time and for sharing right now.
Naveen: Thanks Katie, it’s all the time an honor and a pleasure and I all the time get pleasure from your constructive vitality and love speaking about your youngsters.
Katie: Oh, properly, thanks. And thanks as all the time to all of you for listening and sharing your most respected assets, your time, your vitality, and your consideration with us right now. We’re each so grateful that you just did. And I hope that you’ll be part of me once more on the subsequent episode of The Wellness Mama Podcast.
Should you’re having fun with these interviews, would you please take two minutes to go away a score or assessment on iTunes for me? Doing this helps extra individuals to seek out the podcast, which implies much more mothers and households may benefit from the knowledge. I actually recognize your time, and thanks as all the time for listening.
